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artyartieI've been meaning to write this post for a while now, but a question of ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ainsley's inspired me to finally put pen to paper, metaphorically. Besides, I need a little bit of distraction from the Paper of Doom!
After reading one of the drabbles, A asked me if I wrote the historical Cicero or rather the one from Rome. (My apologies if I paraphrased you incorrectly!) The trust of the matter is I write Cicero on a spectrum, A kinsey scale, if you will, of my own historical accuracy.
If a one would be a 'pure' historical Cicero and a six would be entirely the Cicero of Rome, most of my stories probably range between a 2.5 and a 3. 'A Fate Suitable to His Deserts,', my Cicero/Antony story, is probably between a 4 and a 5 - needless to say, it's hard for me to contemplate the historical Cicero even thinking about Antony in that way. Though sometimes it's enjoyable just to play about and have my biggest worry be, say, which text of Plato Cicero would use to seduce Brutus. The drabbles range widely, depending on my mood when I write them. Two of them have, at least, have been a 1 - chances are, if it has Terentia, Tullia, or any other of his family/friends besides the characters of Rome, it's conveniently ignoring the Rome canon.
I think one of the main goals in many of my Rome stories and drabbles is to give the Cicero of Rome much needed context. Rome!Cicero, to me, has almost no context whatsoever. In a supreme bit of irony, on the 'All Roads Lead to Rome' informational supplement, it mentions Cicero's fame as one of the finest orators, and yet we never see proof of this in the series. Rome!Cicero says he is opposed to tyranny, whereas Historical!Cicero took action against one when he denounced Cataline. Rome!Cicero says he was no friend of Ceasar, whereas the Historical!Cicero was bound to Caesar through political obligation and personal connections. Historical!Cicero was often rumored to be a coward, which would have made his scenes in Pompey's camp even more powerful. And in a show where family was so important, the omission of Cicero's family, especially his daughter (whose death three years before his threw him into inconsolable grief), is an incredible loss. The historical Cicero had his faults - he was pompous and vain, and his forays into politics often resulted in disaster. He turned minor achievements into major accomplishments and was upset when other people did not conflate the two. But Rome seemed only to concentrate on those faults, and ignore any positive traits. I think his genuine love for his friends came across in his relationship with Brutus, and in the last few episodes, I think they portrayed his acute weariness and sorrow as the Republic crumbled to pieces around him.
In a comment on a recent drabble,schadenkatze said my Cicero was always so heartbreaking, and given his context, it's hard not to write him as such. By the time Rome begins, he had lost much of his political power, and was forced to chose between two demagogues who were all but jockeying to be king. theilian has selected some wonderful letters of/to Cicero from key periods in his life and that of the Late Republic. There is so much more reading I need to do, to become a solid Cicero scholar and a better writer. There are aspects of his life on which I'm very shaky and speaking of that all important context, I certainly need (and want) a deeper knowledge of the fall of the Republic. But as I discovered when I first read Cicero eight years ago, the more I know about Cicero, the more I want to learn - and now, the more I want to write.
So for everyone who enjoys writing my Cicero offerings, thank you for your comments, your encouragement, and your questions. I hope this post explains, a little bit, how I write Cicero, and I why I enjoy it so very much.
ainsley's inspired me to finally put pen to paper, metaphorically. Besides, I need a little bit of distraction from the Paper of Doom!After reading one of the drabbles, A asked me if I wrote the historical Cicero or rather the one from Rome. (My apologies if I paraphrased you incorrectly!) The trust of the matter is I write Cicero on a spectrum, A kinsey scale, if you will, of my own historical accuracy.
If a one would be a 'pure' historical Cicero and a six would be entirely the Cicero of Rome, most of my stories probably range between a 2.5 and a 3. 'A Fate Suitable to His Deserts,', my Cicero/Antony story, is probably between a 4 and a 5 - needless to say, it's hard for me to contemplate the historical Cicero even thinking about Antony in that way. Though sometimes it's enjoyable just to play about and have my biggest worry be, say, which text of Plato Cicero would use to seduce Brutus. The drabbles range widely, depending on my mood when I write them. Two of them have, at least, have been a 1 - chances are, if it has Terentia, Tullia, or any other of his family/friends besides the characters of Rome, it's conveniently ignoring the Rome canon.
I think one of the main goals in many of my Rome stories and drabbles is to give the Cicero of Rome much needed context. Rome!Cicero, to me, has almost no context whatsoever. In a supreme bit of irony, on the 'All Roads Lead to Rome' informational supplement, it mentions Cicero's fame as one of the finest orators, and yet we never see proof of this in the series. Rome!Cicero says he is opposed to tyranny, whereas Historical!Cicero took action against one when he denounced Cataline. Rome!Cicero says he was no friend of Ceasar, whereas the Historical!Cicero was bound to Caesar through political obligation and personal connections. Historical!Cicero was often rumored to be a coward, which would have made his scenes in Pompey's camp even more powerful. And in a show where family was so important, the omission of Cicero's family, especially his daughter (whose death three years before his threw him into inconsolable grief), is an incredible loss. The historical Cicero had his faults - he was pompous and vain, and his forays into politics often resulted in disaster. He turned minor achievements into major accomplishments and was upset when other people did not conflate the two. But Rome seemed only to concentrate on those faults, and ignore any positive traits. I think his genuine love for his friends came across in his relationship with Brutus, and in the last few episodes, I think they portrayed his acute weariness and sorrow as the Republic crumbled to pieces around him.
In a comment on a recent drabble,
schadenkatze said my Cicero was always so heartbreaking, and given his context, it's hard not to write him as such. By the time Rome begins, he had lost much of his political power, and was forced to chose between two demagogues who were all but jockeying to be king. theilian has selected some wonderful letters of/to Cicero from key periods in his life and that of the Late Republic. There is so much more reading I need to do, to become a solid Cicero scholar and a better writer. There are aspects of his life on which I'm very shaky and speaking of that all important context, I certainly need (and want) a deeper knowledge of the fall of the Republic. But as I discovered when I first read Cicero eight years ago, the more I know about Cicero, the more I want to learn - and now, the more I want to write. So for everyone who enjoys writing my Cicero offerings, thank you for your comments, your encouragement, and your questions. I hope this post explains, a little bit, how I write Cicero, and I why I enjoy it so very much.
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no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 06:46 pm (UTC)I think one of the issues (though not necessarily a problem in my opinion) with fictionalized history is that real human beings have to be turned into characters. A more realistically complex Cicero (or any of the other characters) wouldn't have fit into the role he needed for the story they were telling. Of course the women characters (aside from the missing ones like Porcia) got the opposite treatment for obvious reasons, but that's a different topic.
Though, it's becoming more and more difficult to accept a Cicero who never even mentions Cataline. But that may be a week of translating him going on and on (AND ON AND ON AND ON) about him talking.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 07:11 pm (UTC)Looks like I won't be heading to Panera. Today started very late, because my sleep schedule is frelled. At least I'm making sure to let my body get the sleep it needs, which is something...though sleeping until noon every day is not exactly feasible or desirable.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 07:26 pm (UTC)Glad you enjoyed it! It was fun and distracting to put some of those thoughts down - and I can *always* talk about Cicero. And now, back to ships and the cult of the sun.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 07:32 pm (UTC)It is odd that Rome AUs are closer to the actual history than the show! But I think if HBO would have had a longer run and different advisors/writers, they could have done more complex characterizations and more of the backstory. The entire Cataline affair, for example, would make the hostility between Cicero and Antony so much more understandable.
*snerks* I had the same thought reading the Second Philippic. As wonderfully viscous as it was, you know some of the Senators were falling asleep halfway through it. But much sympathy for those who actually have to translate Cicero! I tried starting on a letter to Atticus once and I made it, oh, a few sentences before giving up.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 07:40 pm (UTC)And I only needed 8 hours last night! That's such massive progress it warrants celebration.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 07:55 pm (UTC)Oh, I don't think I could physically restrain myself from sneaking that remark in. It is one of my favorites.
I love Cicero, and I like reading him when I don't actually have to make it into English. But writing translations of him is the worst thing ever. While trying to do the last passage I worked on, I got so stressed out that I shouted "PLEASEPLEASE, NO MORE ACCUSATIVES. GIVE ME A FUCKING SUBJECT AND VERB, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD."
If you're wondering, yes, my roomie thinks I'm a complete psychopath.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 08:59 pm (UTC)*grins* What you need is a little Cicero plushie, so when you scream things like that, you could fling him across the room. And while I didn't shout those phrases, exactly, in undergrad, I remember thinking very much along those lines when trying to translate a Hellenistic novel. Jesus freaking Christ, those things are damned impossible to translate. My senior year, however, after a fit of maniacal laughter, I enlightened my roommates on the term for 'reaming someone in the ass with a radish' in Greek. Thank you, Aristophanes!